I have no idea is that is true or not.
What I’m complaining about is the moving target. It looks like a new adjective has managed to sneak it’s way in.
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Morphed into …
Yea, our agnostic is moving the goalposts.
@Zodan You made a statement. When I held your feet to the fire by requesting just one example, you bailed out and changed the definition.
David Killens,
If all you want to do is holding feet to the fire and finding fault in others I think you better become more aware of what desire drives you.
Why would you say I am agnostic?
Yes, I made a statement and said it was not exactly put in words, tried to make an edit for I saw my mistake, but the edit landed up in an email.
I am not quite used how this forum exactly works, but seen what reactions I get here I might not even try to find out actually.
That depends on if your behaviour is an indicator of the way people treat each other here… Oh before you will try to answer that, that’s not up to you.
Being socially aware is not a great mathmatitions desire. If he did have the desire, he would do something about it or not. Desire is not 100% How strong is the desire comes next. Now distinguish the difference between a non-desire, just not having the desire, and a desire one really has but does not know about.
I agree Cognostic, I did not put it in the right words. I have no idea where I got that from, but being socially aware is not what I should have written. I better put more time in formulating myself correct, thus preventing this sort of misunderstanding in future.
The whole point is that free will is of no use if one has no understanding of what desires one truly has. For most if not all action originates from desire, or does it not?
I suspect some or even many people are driven by desires they are at the most only half aware of, or not aware of all the time.
To be honest, I still don’t understand some of my own behaviour, and know that one day (or maybe never at all) I might find what my drive behind my lack of understanding of my own behaviour actually is.
Then again, if one is a nihilist, free will makes no difference anyway. Did the nihilist choose to be a nihilist or was it his destiny?
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I have no idea. I don’t think I am nihilist and I also don’t think I know much about it, why do you ask me?
Many atheists are skeptics, we do not accept statements casually. If you are around here for long, you will discover that no matter who or what, if you are in error you will be called out for it.
Because of these checks and balances, honesty and accuracy in statements is appreciated and anything lesser is found out.
I checked. Just click on any highlighted name on the header. You self-identify as an agnostic.
Which is your right in here. No one is twisting your arm to do anything. But personally (and I have been in some unusual forums with unusual customs and positions) one first listens and learns how business is conducted before jumping into the deep end of the pool. When I joined this forum, my first week was spent just reading, I did not make any posts.
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I can’t find where you checked that. It would be better if I find where I say that, for I better chance it then.
AAnyway, I would/should not call myself agnost, I used to do that for a while for some slack so to say. I thought it would be less confrontational to religious people near me like family, I was raised Christian, some of my relatives still believe. I don’t do that anymore. I’d rather avoid those conversations and even bite my tongue when they tell me they will pray for me, I used to say please don’t waste your time, but that was not appreciated, still, they’re family…
Apart from that, if someone is agnost and would like to participate in discussions, is that a problem? I would not think so as long as they don’t try to hold up false statements that have no reasonable foundation like “God says so.”
Yes, I see why you’d say I am moving the goal post, it was not intended that way, I did not attempt to falsely discuss. Still, without intention, it looks like that. As I said before, I should have weighed my words better.
And yes, when I am in error, call me out, that’s fine with me, maybe I’ll learn something here.
As long as it happens respectfully I am fine with that.
Thank you very much. I strive for that every day.
I wish to apologize if I came across as cold and harsh. It is a personality fault of mine, I am terse and it continually makes my wife purse her lips.
Thanks for your message. If you would not have said a thing I would not have found out I represented myself here as agnostic. (How the f**k did that happen?)
And the rough communication, I am sometimes guilty of that myself too.
So don’t hesitate to tell me when I cross the line.
They won’t respect it. After all, they’re the one’s that indoctrinated you. Now that they know that you’ve rejected “their” teachings of a Sky Father. They’re going to take every opportunity to shove it back down your throat every chance they get.
My mother has been in denial ever since I told her that I was an Atheist at the age of 18 and that I told her that I thought her deity was fictional and imaginary and that I didn’t believe it. I’m 35 and again I reminded her because I got tired of hearing her superstitions. She still doesn’t accept it. So now when she preaches at me. I just ignore it. I could tell her a 100 times to stop and she won’t.
So do not expect your family to stop. A lot of Christians do not respect the beliefs of others and openly oppose anything that doesn’t go along with what their Bible says or what their Pastor preaches on Sundays.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying. My dad died two years ago and my mother 32 years before that.
What hurt me was that my dad was very busy with the religious do this&thats for the funeral service together with my sister when he could have taken some time to speak some more with my son that last opportunity. My son had to fly to another continent, knowing my dad would not live for another week…
It was rather sad to see my dad spending time to mass psychosis instead of having attention and love for my son.
That’s now two years ago and the tears still water my eyes writing about it.
The very next day my dad commented that he noticed my son had a hard time saying goodbye. Het seemed really surprised by that.
I could not believe my ears but kept quiet, and then I told him that it was the first time my son said goodbye to somebody he knew who would die. I do really think that in that short of circumstances one better keeps his mouth shut about religion…
Howdy, Zodan. One of the great things here is that pretty much everybody (the regulars, at least) prefers to be respectful towards the new folks who are still feeling their way around the place. However, be advised, hang around long enough and become a familiar face, and all bets are off at that point. Prepare to be treated like one of the gang. 
Although, at the same time, those who come in spouting off nonsense and actin’-a-fool will not know what hit them when the wolf pack smells fresh meat. That’s when the fun begins. 
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I need to apologize and add clarification.
One can have a need and not be aware of it’s causes. Just ask a pregnant woman. We may not be able to identify the reason for a desire, but once a person is aware they have it, then they are aware they are thirsty, or want pickles. Reference the pregnant woman.
Because I was not specific, that led to our misunderstandings with the statement “If one has no control over what one desires”. It could be a matter of timing, where there are two phases. The onset of the desire, and post-desire.
I could be down at the beach on a nice hot sunny day. I have an immediate desire for something cold to drink. On self-examination I can understand that “hot sun + beach + not fully hydrated + chicks in bikinis = thirst”
Rule #1 If you drop your soap in the shower, kick it into the corner and keep your back to the wall.
Rule #2 Bananas
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Excellent advice. A bit of expanding on Rule #2, though, for those who are fairly new here. Keep a banana with you at all times, ESPECIALLY in the showers. Because if Cog ever walks in while you are bathing, you will be able to throw the banana to the other side of the room to distract him, allowing you to escape mostly un-traumatized. Any other time, however, it’s just simply fun to see what type of strange things you can make him do for the banana.
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So after all I looked up the quote I tried to refer to, and after all consternation I still had it wrong…
The original text that I referred to says:
“Wir sind night frei in der was wir tun wann wir nicht frei sind in der waß wir wollen.”
Now that’s a different piece of cake…
Soap and bananas? 
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Or you can skip the middle-man and just use banana-shaped soap… (if you’re into that sort of thing). At the very least you won’t have to keep up with your banana in the shower. And Cog won’t know the difference when you throw it.
LOL… Like anyone would care. Seriously, if you can’t get honest with yourself and others, how useful could you possibly be? Silly ideas get challenged in this forum. That’s pretty damn simple. (I’m not saying the following to be pedantid or a braggart in any way. I am assisting you in identifying the community you have wandered into.) I’m not absolutely sure: however, most of the people in the threads appear to be 1. University Educated, and 2. Have years of experience in the disciplins they talk about.
3. At the very least, they are very well read in the topics they discuss. Personally, I have 8 years of university under my belt. 40 years of Counseling and Teaching experience. I say that, to mention this: These guys have me running to the books regularly. This theory, that theory, this period of history, that period of history, this mathmatician prove bla bla bla, Cosmologists just found bla bla bla… , And here is an interesting biological organism no one is talking about bla bla bla. If you can’t get over yourself and learn something new… “This is certainly not the place for you.” There aren’t any slouches around here, even though a few of us may sound like slouches now and again. LOL Oh. And if I have not mentioned it yet. You probably won’t meet a more “Opinionated” group of individuals. We don’t necessarily agree with one another on everything. On these occasions, you might find it interesting to just sit back and watch the fireworks blow. It’s all chewing gum for the mind.