Does the belief in God make better People?

From my experience, I found that people who believe in God (Not Fanatics thus :smiley: ) are always been more social and kind that the regular fellow …

I was wondering what is the pint of view of most atheists ?

From my experience I have found people are sometimes social and kind and sometimes not. And it makes little difference if they believe in a god. It does not take a god for anyone to be kind or moral, and believing in a god does not make anyone more tolerant of others. There is no clear constant divide for any one specific reason.
If you have only ever found religious people tolerant and social, my point of view would be that you might not be as observant as you could be and maybe you do not get out and about as much as you should.

Welcome to the forum.

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Compared with whom?

How do you define a fanatic? To me fanatics begin with proselytisers.

Overall, I have never found believers as a group any more social, kind , moral or superior in any way than non believers I know than any other people.

Nor do I accept the fatuous implication that one needs to be a believer to be a good person. I’ll go further; I have belonged to perhaps half a dozen atheist forums. Generally speaking I have found the people on those forums to be more accepting, supportive and compassionate than any comparable group of believers. I have also belonged [briefly] to a couple of Christian forums. I found their members to be hypocritical,/dogmatic and judgemental.

My short answer to what seems to me to be a loaded question is ‘NO’

An atheist is simply a person who does not believe in gods .There is no such thing as an atheist view on any other topic.

I apologise if I’ve misunderstood you . I notice you have not indicated that you are an atheist. Your post has the flavour of a disingenuous believer. Such people commonly begin with questions to members ‘as atheists’ but do not express their own views, and thus miss the point IE: that this is a debate forum. You will be challenged to think for yourself and to present your own views.-------Perhaps begin by giving your opinion of the question you’ve asked. Seems to me to be subjective assessment, so there are no right or wrong answers…

Welcome to the site. I am going to treat your question like a serious inquiry and hope the other Atheists on the site will act in kind unless you prove yourself to be less than authentic in your quest for knowledge. There is a demonstrable error in your logic.

Human beings are social animals. WE EVOLVED THAT WAY. The seven other species of humanoids that were less social, have all gone extinct. It is our ability to be social that has allowed us to survive. A human alone in the wilderness is little more than a walking hamburger. We do not have scales, thick skin or armor. We do not have speed, camouflage or stealth. We don’t have strength, claws, fangs, poisons, barbs, wings to fly away, or superior eyes or ears. What we do have is the ability to bond, form groups, clans, tribes, communities and work together. Those of us with a greater ability to get along, bond with others, and form groups, have a greater capacity for survival.

Throughout human history, banishment, separation from the group, has always been one of the most horrific punishments any one human could inflict on another. Even today, banishment, in the form of “Life In Prison” is one of the most horrific punishments we can inflict on one another. Can you even think of a religion that either does not currently practice shunning or does not have a past of practicing shunning? Religious practices make it very clear… “You are with the group or you are against the group. Hot or Cold. There is no middle ground.” “Whoever is not with Me is against Me , and whoever does not gather with Me scatters” (Matthew 12:30)"
Why wouldn’t people in religion be more social? Churches intentionally make themselves that way. Churches actively seek out “joiners,” and those willing to seek out other joiners.
So here is the question: Are people who believe in Gods more social? or Do people who are more social get together, form groups, and invent Gods? Given the millions of gods produced by the millions of groups on this planet, I would suggest that the later is more likely.

I do not know the view of most atheists. There is no Atheist dogma. There is no book of Atheism. There really aren’t any “Atheists” if you are referencing them as a homogeneous group. There is no shared belief system among atheists. Atheists are merely people who do not believe in God or gods. Also, atheists find community in belonging to other kinds of groups (Free Thinkers, Humanists, Secularists, etc… if they have a desire for community. There are even Atheist Churches.)

So… I think your perception is correct … to a degree. If you look closely at Atheism you will find that we to have a strong sense of community, belonging, ‘brotherhood’ if you like. We don’t meet in churches and we don’t meet regularly every Sunday. But the internet was made for Atheists. We are always here. Online. Sharing with one another. Discussing. Growing. Asking and answering questions. Recommending books, videos, music, and the latest memes. We are here and just like the religious, we do have social interaction and community. It’s just not the same as what you are used to seeing.

Hope this helps. We are all social animals.


Define “the regular” fellow.

So given that there is quite a mix of religious beliefs out there, and then there are “non-religious, but spiritual” or just “non-religious”, just curious as to who the “regular” fellow is?

Hello malicious, welcome to Atheist Republic.

I was raised a christian, and yes, told through bible tales to be kind, to be loving, to be gentle.

But I did not need religion to tell me that, all I needed in my upbringing was to have it demonstrated to me and told that it was expected.

But what is “better”? What is a “better person”?

The environment I was raised in could be described as loving and gentle. But that same environment was 100% racist and intolerant of others. We had disparaging names for every different non-white protestant ethnic group, and the level of respect for those “others” was absolutely zero.

Can I claim that religion enhances racism and hate towards others? No, I do not believe I could prove that in a court of law, so I leave it to each individual to reach their own opinion.

BUT … all of them turned a blind eye to this disgraceful position and conduct.

Religion has not proven itself as humanity’s moral compass. We do not need religion as an example or training tool on how to conduct ourselves, there are much effective and less cruel methods.

If you stripped away religion from a developing child, and substituted other training methods, one could easily arrive at a mature adult that was more tolerant, kinder, less racist, less arrogant, and less willing to fly airplanes into buildings.

And that is part of this discussion. Religion MAY make people “better”, but it can just as easily make people cruel, murderous, and intolerant.

God doesn’t make one what I try to be everyday. Kind heart, compassionate soft, would give the shirt off my back if it would help one out. I don’t believe in any god or deity I don’t need that to be a nice person.

Answer your question?

Welcome to the forum, Malicious.

I think you’re looking at this question the wrong way round. Human behavior is the product of human nature, not religion. Some people are kind and social, while others are less so, but fundamentally we are social animals who try to treat each other decently.

Religion is a mechanism to distort and suppress human nature. As Steven Weinberg said, “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”


What is a regular fellow? Atheist/None/Agnostic?
How do you know they are always more social and kind? Your own personal experience?

I think a single “pint” is not enough, but 2 pints is too much in one sitting.

Seriously though: I find most folks that believe “in god” and want to talk about it, are initially very nice, kind people, but if you disagree with them, and input your own side, these people go from “nice” and “sociable” to mean and not interested in talking really, really! fast.

I find a few key word triggers can take the typical nice God fearing individual to a hellfire type person that think you are evil incarnate within a minute or less.

I did not deal with this in my first reply, but I strongly suspect this is the heart of the matter, objective versus subjective morality.

Some of the evils condoned by religion.

The Crusades
The Manifest Destiny

I will toss in rampant misogyny.

I am still at a loss (beyond brainwashing/no choice) why any woman would go along with any of the major religions due to rampant and horrible misogyny, that is light years behind what the most succesful societies are at.


Whaaaa??? Say it ain’t so!!! No one has offered Cog the 30 shekels yet!

Just my own opinion or course: In the christian religions, my conclusion to "I am still at a loss (beyond brainwashing/no choice) why any woman would go along with any of the major religions …" is that for many women who adhere to their religions, it IS brainwashing. It’s just that the brainwashing evolves. Some denominations (at least in the U.S.) evolve with society. I’ve noticed how each denomination ‘cherry picks’ the bible and emphasizes certain points. They often ‘relegate’ and even ‘dismiss’ questionable or controversial parts of scripture and focus on points that are ‘more comfortable’ to live with.
My observation only comes from living in the U.S. In my region I’ve noticed that as societies have granted women more rights, many denominations try to remain ‘assimilated.’ It applies to many of the ‘taboos’ they now tolerate or accept. But on this subject, I think that’s why some denominations now allow female ministers.
I don’t think most followers spend much time reading the bible and really see what their god is like. (During the time I was brainwashed, I didn’t.) If they read something contradictory, they rationalize that it was something that happened millennia ago, and somewhere it must be written that it doesn’t apply now. Or they rationalize that they aren’t educated enough to understand. Either way, they let their leaders control what they believe.
The brainwashing evolves so the churches can retain as much of their flocks as possible.

Christians, for example, tend to say that without “God”, there can be no morals, ie. without “God”, anything goes.

So thank the FSM that those people actually have a belief in a god, and a system of eternal rewards / punishments, to keep them in moral check.

Since going to church, gives church-goers a community to which they belong and probably value, so they get practice in such community based things as sociability . So they may well be social and may be kind, (if they follow the teaching to be kind to one’s fellow human beings). Then again some god-believing people, do love to give other people a hard time for being gay, lesbian, bi-, for wanting abortion, for wanting birth control and just plain being non-believing heathens.

But there ain’t no general rule. One ought to take each person, god-believer or not, on how they present to one, and how they talk and behave in one’s presence, (and absence!).



I think it was Friedrich Engels who wrote that people are participants in their own oppression .

Each of the Abrahamic faiths are patriarchal and and misogynist. Yet until very recently none of them has ever had any problems getting women to accept the the most draconian controls against them.

Our religious beliefs and world views are taught before the age of reason and absorbed uncritically,
Imo few people ever seriously question ‘the way things are’. The simple proof for this opinion is the fact that only around 14% of the world population are atheists. I

In most countries ,it seems to me that women still have some way to go before reaching equality. So it seems that the majority of women simply accept what the have been taught natural law, and teach their daughters in turn the same, helping perpetuate a world in which men are dominant over women .

I realise the above is a pretty simplistic explanation of a complex issue which has many facets.

With the exception of not knowing if Engels wrote it or not, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here.
I admit that I still have some of the philosophy, and some theological tendencies, still ingrained in me from before the age when I could question what I was taught.

I can see what you’re saying. Makes sense.
But I feel it’s too bad that some people think their morals come from a god. I debated with a christian who thinks the same.
Part of my awakening was when I realized my morals don’t come from a god’s scriptures–especially a god who endorses torture and slavery. With my morals telling me those practices are wrong, I can comfortably say I have better morals.
I thank the FSM that many christians dismiss or reject some of what their god teaches.

Many of us who were raised in and around theist cultures have the same tendencies. If you say the word God, my brain slips immediately to the Western version of the Christian version. If I were raised in the Middle east, even if I had been an atheist for years, the first God that would pop into my head would certainly be Allah. We are admittedly shaped by the cultures that surround us./

Oh yes. So true. To make this answer long enough to post, I’ll say I think that culture is a ‘necessary’ form of programming we need to function as a society.

Not sure if I understand what you mean by ‘culture’. I don’t want to assume it’s the same as my understanding of what is a crucial concept… Would you mind outlining what you mean?