Do you respect Islam?

Obviously I don’t. I was told on another forum by a Muslim after I openly insulted Islam that I “had no right to disrespect their religion” and I told that Muslim that I had every right to. They don’t respect women, people’s sexual orientation, or people of other religious affiliations. It’s only fair right?

Islam has about twice the percentage of fundamentalist adherents that Christianity does, and coming as they do from impoverished countries those elements tend to be more radicalized as well.

Muslim apologists I’ve had contact with are even more aggressively ignorant yet unaware of it, than are Christian apologists.

Other than that I respect them just fine.

Look, when it comes to individuals, I judge them by their character / virtue / actions, which if good, might be good in spite of some religious ideation, or not. I don’t care about anything but actual actions at an individual level.

At the organizational level, it’s a different story. I find all the Abrahamic / monotheistic religions harmful and divisive. Other religions are epistemologically invalid but IMO tend to be less arrogant and evangelical, overall. In general religions that don’t push evangelism and are willing to coexist with non-adherents are not a big concern to me.

To me, all religions fall under the radical acceptance philosophy. There is nothing I can do to change or eliminate them, so acceptance is the best thing for my mental health

I don’t respect anything that uses coercion or punishment to promote their ideology.

The saddest thing about Islam is the absolute fealty required to gain acceptance. When you consider the Quran was one of the first Arab texts to promote science, medicine and law, it seems like that motivation had a shelf life.

Considering Islam is the second largest religion, they operate less that 1% of non-secular universities and colleges. They enforce a patriarchal system that discourage critiques of the flock. “The Muslim is the brother of his fellow-Muslim. He does not wrong him, let him down or despise him.” So, no matter how batshit crazy an Imam may be in his interpretations, he is still a good Muslim…so shut the fuck up.

How do you respect a faith with such an inherent resistance to any form or reformation?

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There was a period when science, math and inquiry flourished in the Arab world, but the fundamentalists crushed it and more liberal factions never recovered. Liberal Muslims exist today, but only as a sort of diaspora. The closest thing to a liberal democracy in a majority Muslim country was Turkey beginning under Ataturk, and that fell apart over the past decade or so.

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not anymore than the Jedi people. No wait: the Jedi people don’t have a history of hurting people.

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I do not respect Islam. I do not respect Christianity. I do not respect any religion. I do not respect any philosophy.
I do, however respect a couple of folks I know who hold to some philosophies. Respect is on a spectrum which I assign to people. I am unable to respect a religion in and of itself because it is inanimate. I cannot respect it just as I cannot respect a rock or a dinner plate.

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Personally, while I may have to “tolerate” religions (primarily Islam and Christianity) to a certain degree, that does not necessarily mean I will respect them. As for the practitioners of those religions, however, I base my respect on the individual and on what type of person they are. For instance, my neighbor and his wife are heavily involved with the more notable church in our community. So what? They are great neighbors, despite the fact they know my wife and I are not involved with any churches or religious organizations. We get along great. He and I help each other with yard work and other projects. My wife takes them herbal balms and other such “witchy” natural things she makes. He brings over desserts and other food items he cooks. I have a key to their house, and they have a key to our house. I keep and eye on his place and feed their pet dog when they are away, and he does the same for us. Hell, I even helped him install some doors in their church recently. When I got there to help him, he jokingly told me, “I finally got you in church.” (Imagine my surprise when the building didn’t collapse on me when I walked through the door. :joy: ) Bottom line, they are honest country folks who are fantastic neighbors. Sure, they are hardcore faithful Christians. But that isn’t really their fault. They were simply raised that way and never questioned it. Granted, I can only imagine what they might say about me and my wife to their fellow church members. But if they have any judgement about us, we have yet to see it from them. As such, I have a great deal of respect for them. Would be nice if all Christians could be like that. The sad reality, though, is they are the exception to the rule. Which just now made me think of something amazingly ironic….

We all know of the individuals/groups who take their religious “duties” to full throttle. Society/media/law enforcement agencies label them as “extremists” because of all the violence they project and the harm they cause to those who do not agree with their chosen faith/dogma/ideologies. Even many of their own faith tend to shun them because those “extremists” give their religion a bad name/reputation. Consider this for a moment, though: As we all know here, the bible and Koran both teach that non-believers are to be either converted or killed. Both books make that very clear in their own ways. Also, as we all know, MOST of the followers of those two prominent theologies go to great lengths to “water down” those parts of their holy books, or simply ignore them altogether. They want to focus only on the goody-goody touchy feel-good parts that make them feel “special”, while pretending the bad parts don’t count. Okay, fair enough, I suppose. Weak and dishonest, of course, but I understand (sort of). On the other hand, those “extremists”, in my opinion, are actually truly abiding by their faith and following the teachings of their respective holy books with full commitment. To me, it seems they are the ones who should actually be considered true Christians/Muslims, rather than extremists. Granted, I truly despise such people/groups for the harm they cause in the name of their god. At the same time, however, I cannot help but have a small amount of grudging respect for those who have that amount of commitment to what they believe. To be clear, though, I have absolutely ZERO respect for ANY religionS that teach/condone such barbaric behavior toward those who do not bow down to them.

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I respect religions the same way I respect pseudosciences (e.g. flat earth, creationism/intelligent design, astrology, acupuncture, homeopathy, antivaccination, history revisionism), conspiracy theories (e.g. 9/11 truthism, chemtrails, NWO, antisemitism, holocaust denial, alien reptilians) and general superstition (e.g. lucky/unlucky numbers or symbols, omens, curses). That is, not at all. What I do respect is the right of individuals to live their own lives, make their own decisions (preferably informed), believe whatever shit they want to believe in, and to explain stuff for fact-oriented educational purposes in a historical context (“this is what [some] people believe/used to believe”). However, if assertions or beliefs in the above mentioned categories or in religion are taken out in public, if anyone proselytise, or if anyone will be hurt or injured by these beliefs, I tend to object (depending on context, of course; I’m not going to start an argument or insult my next door neighbour). And sometimes I take umbrage and object heavily. And sometimes things build up and I vent online.

TL;DR: No, I do not respect islam as a religion, in the same way I don’t respect the other abrahamic religions, hinduism, pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and superstitious shit. But I do respect the right of individuals to make their own decisions and to hold stupid beliefs. On the other hand, I also think that it is an important and central right (in some cases even a duty) to object when such beliefs and thoughts are taken out in public.

Herein lies the rub…

Religion has always been the best tool to legitimize hierarchy and identity…eventually leading to some centralized control mechanism within the social order. Monarchist, authoritarian, plutocrat…pick any “-ism” or “-cracy” and you’d be hard pressed to find anyone in their ruling class that doesn’t see the utility in promoting some sort of religion.

It makes sense. Start them young, indoctrinate the masses and find a way to wedge your particular narrative into these beliefs…and reap the rewards of power and wealth.

Why does the West vilify Communists? They do not promote this system of control. Granted, they have their own problems, but they fixed that one…

Part of me wishes I could live long enough to see how China’s rise to dominant world power and Islam’s rise to theistic dominance plays out. My money is on Islam.

Are you now talking about theoretical Marxism or the practical implementations of communism as seen in the Soviet Union and its sphere of influence, China, North Korea, Cuba, or with the Khmer Rouge in Kampuchea? If the former, well, there are no implementations of pure Marxism, and have never been any. All the claimed practical implementations of Marxism in different forms we have seen since the Russian revolution in 1917 have been perverted ones in the form of Marxism-Leninism, Maoism, Juche/Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism, and so on. All of these were/are authoritarian, repressive, and to various degree also autocratic, and with rampant corruption in various forms among the elite ruling classes and with religion replaced by the insertion and almost deification of an inerrant strong leader with a high profile with an omnipresence in public life. So they basically replaced the crushing of opposition against religion, gods, and the ruling classes with the crushing of opposition against the party programme, the party elite and the strong leader. And they all impose powerful propanda and strong indoctrination on the population.

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Agreed. No matter which system employed, it inevitably erodes into tyranny in the end.

Pondering outcomes of intractable positions. The middle east is a prime example of two intractable theist positions. My curiosity is what the outcome will be when the two largest and most influential entities of theism and anti-theism compete for the world’s obedience.

My you live in interesting times…

That’s the best answer I’ve heard. This really resonates with me. I’m keeping what you said close to heart. :heart:

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Seems to me it’s little different from the way people say others have “no right to judge them” yet it’s exactly what we evolved to do.

On Islam in particular, OT1H we should not (perhaps) judge other cultures by the standards of our own but OTOH there are some things that are (to my mind at least) self-evidently right. I guess I’d assume that in their own country they are “right” and, if I don’t like them, not go there; it’s one reason I won’t visit Saudi Arabia, Russia and America (and others) right now. However, if they choose to live in a nation that has different morals (as reflected in that nation’s laws) then they should accept the standards [particularly] of hard-won rights such as sexual, sexuality etc. qualities.

Of course, it doesn’t help that many of our own don’t accept them either.

Apologies for the ramble!

UK Atheist

i dont respect any religion that preaches hate and bigotry and misogyny

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Well, that significantly shortens the list…

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for real. i think that narrows it down to maybe…. zero religions