My mom posted a bunch of bullshit on social media about my brother saying he cared about the people of town because he “prayed” with a woman who had anxiety and stage fright, because they’re doing a play at the town theater.
It felt like another stereotypical dig at Atheists. Because I don’t pray to her god or believe that her god exists, I must not care about her well being. She’s never going to accept me. She can’t seem to get past it. No matter how much I demonstrate that I care, Christianity just fucks me in the ass every damn turn.
I’m real aggravated by this stereotype bs that she airs. Even on Reddit, some guy who “claimed” that he was an Atheist was reading the bible to his dying father and I said I that I wouldn’t even do that for my mom even if she were breathing her last breath, because I would never even allow someone (living or dead) to railroad me like that.
Then most of the reddit users were slamming me and saying that “this is why people have a problem with atheists” and
“I’m thinking like wtf? You all must be Christians if you’re spilling bullshit statements if you’re defending Christian beliefs like that.”
Because you have some Christians out there that naturally hate on Atheists because of the whole “you’re with us or against us” dynamic. It especially doesn’t help when you have family members with the same bs views.
I believe you can care about someone no matter a difference in religion. I’m so sick of religion and churches driving a wedge between people for these reasons alone.
first off, that sucks man. second, thats a common trope christians try to play. they try to frame atheists as “them vs us”. but atheism isnt against christianity specifically. its against ALL religions. and when i say against, i simply mean we dont follow
Exactly. They are taught by the church system that Atheism is criminal. Anyone who isn’t Christian is looked down on with pity or disgust.
It always felt like a slap in my face when one of my mom’s church friends would look at me, sigh, and say the following: “I’ll pray for you”. That really is the Christian word for “fuck you.” It’s so backhanded.
The ones who pity you and feel sorry for you just because you don’t believe in their god essentially treat you like you have cancer. And the ones who hate Atheists treat us like we are a cancer.
I think I feel it more because I live in the bible belt where Atheists have to closet our non beliefs. Especially where I live. They’ve got multiple churches around town. I’ve had a pastor tell me that my beliefs are unpopular and that I should keep it to myself. He talked to me like I was LGBTQ. Like I needed to stay being a closet atheist and that really made me feel angry.
I feel you. dont even get me started on their views of lgbtq. they claim now that they hate the sin, not the sinner, yet treat the person like a disease.
2 Corinthians 5:10 : “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."*
They even wrote it down so you wouldn’t miss it… When a central core of your theology relies on a judgment, is it any wonder the flock tends to get a little judgmental…
The more Abrahamic religions splinter into ever smaller divisions, the judgments get even more specific and strict.
Whenever I got that “I’ll pray for you” shit from Christians I was so tempted to ask them not to pray for me, but please tip your stripper… They never would have seen the irony anyway…
Parents can be fucked up. They likely learned it from their parents. Religious zealots and narcissists should get the same response. Either no contact or greyrock them.
It’s more important that you accept yourself. If they can’t accept you for what you are…well, that sure frees up your holiday schedule…
Well, if my mother will still alive, but on her deathbed, and asked for me to read scripture to her because she would be comforted by it, I would absolutely do that. She’s wouldn’t change her views, particularly in her last moments, and I wouldn’t do her any favors by discomfiting her just to make some point and be “right”. In fact it’d be all the more an expression of love because she was aware I no longer believe. It is just empathy, not endorsement.
Similarly my oldest brother got a fatal cancer diagnosis at age 67 and was broken hearted and wondered why god was punishing him. I didn’t blow smoke up his patootie but simply said, Steve, you’re asking the wrong question to the wrong guy. I don’t think you’re being punished. And if you were being punished, I don’t think it would be just. But it didn’t help because his real issue was that he had done some things in his youth that he’d spent his whole life atoning for and feared it wasn’t enough and had finally caught up to him. It wasn’t even some terrible thing like murder or torture, it was just standard-issue carousing when he was in the Navy. But his faith had taught him that was awful and vile.
Then there was my 2nd wife, during whose time with me, I deconverted, so we ended up as a theist / atheist couple. In our case it worked out fine because I let her alone with her delusions and while I was happy to answer her questions about my change of belief, I did not impose them on her and she returned the favor. That last phrase is important.
I think it all boils down to, I can to an extent humor people of faith for whom faith is genuinely personal and who don’t judge me or think I should be judged for having a different view. I would not deny someone a kindness though just to make a point. But if one comes from a fundamentalist background it colors everything and it’s easy to see everything as an existential struggle when it’s not really.
I find it hard to respect religions that promote bigotry, particularly Christianity and Islam. Many interpretations of their teachings seem to encourage discrimination against people based on race, gender, or sexual orientation. This contradicts the messages of love and compassion that these religions often preach. Throughout history, there have been numerous instances where these doctrines have justified violence and oppression. While not all followers embody these negative traits, such interpretations influence how religions are perceived.
It just feels like a last ditch effort for them to indoctrinate you. I’ve heard it all before. The whole story on how “My parent’s death brought me to Jesus”. Or how about “I was lost as an Atheist, and I’m now saved as a Christian”.
It sounds all very hallmark, but really it’s just a load of bullshit every Christian buys into when it comes to their children who never converted. I don’t want them dying based on a lie that they think their death saved my “soul”. It’s dishonest.
And no, It’s not about being right. My thoughts are this. They’ve used religion their entire life for comfort and emotional / mental security. They tried to indoctrinate me because it was for their comfort and convenience. Me taking up their religion was never about me. It was always about them.
I’ve spent over 20 some yrs not partaking in religion with them, let alone no one. Why would I start reading their bible and praying with them now? I’m pretty big on not practicing a religion I don’t support or believe in.
Think of it like this. If I were on my death bed, it would bring me comfort that my parents denounce their god’s existence and deconvert to Atheism. Would they do it? Why fuck no.
I’m talking about a scenario where a family member just wants that experience for themselves as they are dying. If there’s an unmistakable “I hope to convert you” subtext, that’s one thing, but I can actually imagine that being true at face value.
Let’s put it this way, if it had been either of my parents making that request, it would have been an honest request for a favor. If it had been my surviving fundie brother, I’d suspect at least a parallel ulterior motive but still wouldn’t be threatened by doing it. YMMV and that’s both fine and understandable.
“It was always about them” may be more common than I give it credit for, but as I’ve said elsewhere, my parents came to fundamentalism late in life, in their early 40s, and had already been socialized to be decent people. And they were really good at minding their own business once I was an adult. Their faith was misguided and delusional, but sincerely held and without judgment (for me anyway) or without concern for what their fellow believers would think of me. It is entirely possible that this situation is rarer than I think, or that I am myself deluded because I never encountered judgment or condemnation or threats from my parents. Not even implied ones.
I have nothing but respect for your experience and how you decide to handle it for yourself, I am just relating a different experience / path.
No one has ever said this to me, I guess we’re lucky in the UK that religion isn’t quite as invasive, but I’d paraphrase Professor Dawkins’ response, and answer “Knock yourself out, and I will think for you”.
Most of the caterwauling about freedom is “freedom for me, not thee”.
I suspect however that most Presidents in recent history have been less pious than they play-acted in public anyway. This is part of why Christian Nationalists are hungry for someone who will at least pay explicit lip service to their particular dogma and be their explicit ally – hence, Trump. So long as they get their corrupt SCOTUS and free reign to build their quasi-theocracy, they don’t care about his actual character or morality, obviously, much less his lack of actually belonging to or attending any of their churches.
well if he did, i would think it or he would catch fire.. But my point is is that the freedom of religion doesn’t necessarily mean freedom FROM religion
26% of Americans identify as either atheist, agnostic or none of the above. The majority of these typically vote Democratic, but I would guess you’d lose half of them running as strictly an atheist.
So, we’re still looking at 74% of Americans that believe something acceptable under the DSM. Let’s be real optimistic and say we’ll get half of those votes.
Statistically, we have 50% of the vote, just bullshitting with the concept.
But politics is a world onto itself. Both parties sees the 74% statistic and spew a resounding FUCK NO! They only believe an atheist is unelectable. You can try a run as a third party or independent candidate, but you will struggle to raise funds and maintain a serious campaign.
Atheist or not, you can always count on thoughts and prayers from politicians after every mass shooting in America.
Freedom of Religion is similar to Freedom of Speech in that both are true, to a point. Yelling fire in a crowded theater… You have freedom from participation in religion, or can practice whatever batshit crazy thing you want, as long as it falls within the parameters of the DSM-5.
What you don’t have is freedom from exposure to religion. You can’t swing a dead cat and not hit a theist in America. You can treat that as a source of conflict, or amusement.
Did you hear the one about the 4 priests on a train from Dublin to Tralee?
From an atheist’s perspective, the political landscape can seem discouraging given the stigma surrounding atheism. However, with 26% of Americans identifying as non-religious, there’s a growing opportunity for representation that emphasizes shared values like social justice, education, and scientific literacy. Atheists advocate for rational policies that impact the common good, which can resonate with a diverse electorate. The center of it rests in the idea that a moral-less individual cant lead a society. and who’s less moral than your everyday atheist?
It’s a bit disingenuous to claim the moral high ground anywhere in discussions of politics. We are talking about the arena where all the bottom dwellers migrate for gain and self interest.
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington was a fictional story…it wasn’t a documentary.
I think where democrats, progressives and some independents have missed their moment was during the 2024 election cycle. They harped on institutions, democracy and rule of law. I say this, as 74 million of the American electorate returned a “fuck that shit” and voted for Trump…the devil you know…
Do I have faith in American politicians to change things? Why would they, the current system suits them quite well as it is.
You have to change the people who vote. You have to provide a clear path, free of any threats, real or imagined and bring some benefit to the citizens you want to vote for you. A system built to function through compromise tends to become stagnant when you create intractable institutional positions…merely to attract other self interested ill informed constituents to tow the party line.
“…stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than evil…” - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
what do we think “make america great again” means? its the little things that society overlooks. and thats how he gets his power. he’s a terrible president, but a great businessman. he knows how to slip little loopholes, tids and bits in little pockets.
I think that’s interesting because in a similar situation I think I would because my empathy would be for the person who was dying and if they depart this world under the illusion that I’d converted, so what? It makes them feel better and it’s not gonna make me less atheist, is it?
Of course, I can’t relate to your relationship with your mum so maybe the above doesn’t apply but hey ho.
Personally, I always thought that MAGA stood for Meet A Genuine Asshole…
from ehat I see, Make America Great Again distills down to Make America the 1950’s again. No EPA, no OSHA…or serious regulation at all for industry. You had Glass-Steagall, but very little else to concern banking and finance. White privilege was the unspoken rule of the day.
It’s the perfect scheme. Think about it. As an ultra rich human who wants to make more and keep as much as possible, you need a President who is willing to assist the government in looking the other way. The sarcastic adage of “A slave is worth more dead than alive—because then you don’t have to feed him, and the insurance pays out” doesn’t work very well in a sea of regulators.
Until Americans wake up and begin to notice that this road is counter productive and short sighted we will likely keep tripping down it for a while longer.
Ever hear the song “America Kicks Ass” from King Missile? The sarcasm is typically lost on MAGA
. But my point is is that the freedom of religion doesn’t necessarily mean freedom FROM religion