The thing is Tin Man, they tend to each come here thinking they have some brand new arguement, retort, rebuke etc… that we haven’t heard before.
Even our newest frequenter of the forum doesn’t propose anything I haven’t seen, read or heard before.
Though I do appreciate that there’s a bit more thought behind it.
That said, apologetics is apologetics and again, everything that has come up is par for the course.
I’d like to hear something new, maybe one day.
In regards to the OP, I’ve frequented many atheist forums, but simply put I prefered the layout of this site and the members are quite the charachters.
I also saw a lot of debates with believers and found the back and fourth interesting.
Very true, I agree. Within only the first year of my membership on this site, I heard pretty much every single “argument” used by theists countless times over. And from that time up until present day, I have yet to hear any other different/original arguments from any of the many theists who have passed through our gates. Come to think of it, I haven’t even heard any new stuff from folks I have encountered in real life. It is ALWAYS the same ol’ song-n-dance, because it is the same ol’ excuses/teachings that are passed down from generation to generation. Then there are the “professional” apologists who actually pull in quite a nice income by developing “ingenious” methods to help support their god beliefs. Just go to your nearest large chain bookstore and see how huge the Christianity section is. But, like you said, we all already know these things.
Maybe I should clarify what I meant when I said I enjoy discussions with sincere and honest theists. I am talking about the ones who actually acknowledge what we share with them makes sense, and even admit that their belief is strictly based on faith. The ones who don’t try to fabricate elaborate word salad excuses for why they believe. The ones who actually seem interested in what we share with them as to why we are atheists. Sure, I never expect any of them to suddenly change their minds and decide their faith is no longer valid to them. I simply enjoy the exchange of ideas and different views. Unfortunately, as I said before, we all know those types of theists are an incredibly rare sight on here. Meanwhile, I figure with theists like Sherlock around, it gives us a chance to highlight to our “silent on-lookers” all the nonsense, contradictions, and discrepancies that are bundled up in the religions we discuss.
Agreed Tin-Man, my sister is quite religious herself, but I have an appreciation for her view because at least it is an honest one.
She knows it’s blind faith and it is mainly because of a fear of death and what comes after, the fear of nothingness.
But there is a mutual respect, where we dont discuss religion and just enjoy company and have a laugh.
My brother in law is similar but curious, his belief stems from the ‘why’ questions, again, i just appreciate the honesty of the approach and not trying to use the normal bullshit avenues of discourse.
I can resepect those views.
I actually think that this is an interesting question.
I can’t speak for anyone except myself, but I speculate that it depends upon what one’s focus is. Some people are atheistic because of abstract or philosophical reasons, while others (such as myself) are more concerned with practicality.
In my case, I see the real harm and damage that’s done by religion, and I wish to have a forum to vent and explore ideas about how to remove and/or weaken the influence of religion in society.
I–for example–often throw out the Brescia church explosion as an example of the harm done by religion. Another example is how it was an affront to God for a doctor to wash his or her hands in bleach water (to prevent infections like childbed fever) before attending a woman in labor, as Genesis states that God will greatly multiply Eve’s pain in childbirth as punishment for tempting Adam with the fruit of the tree.
If you are looking for a more modern context to challenge my points, then consider that I have been professionally disciplined (in my job as a paramedic) for treating Wiccans, Sikhs, and people who practice Santeria with the same respect that I extend toward Christian ministers, Catholic priests, and/or Jewish rabbis.
Also, the religious values of certian hospitals have caused them to complain about me to my bosses when I refused to discriminate against gay people . . . an example being when I treat a patient’s other half like a spouse.
See below for examples of what I’m talking about:
I have been kept from promotion and advancement because I insist on extending the same accomodations to every religion . . . even if such religions (like Wicca) are “wrong” or “dangerous”, as I flatly refuse to discriminate in my professional capacity as a paramedic.
As another interesting example of how religion hurts people, consider snake handling.
There are churches in this country where people handle venomous snakes as a part of the service. Please see below:
When it comes to snake handling, I see an interesting contradiction: The conservative right claims that drag shows and LGBTQ people are dangerous to children, because if children are exposed to gay people, then kids can turn gay because they might emulate the behavior.
Well . . . I have run emergency calls on children who were bitten by venomous snakes (usually a dangerous water moccasin, which has the latin binomial of Agkistrodon piscivorus) because they were emulating what they experienced in church.
My point is that Christians will protest against LGBTQ people for the sake of the children, yet they won’t protest against snake handling churches . . . when kids die because they emulate what they saw a minister doing.
These types of issues are a part of why I’ve become active in atheism . . . although I prefer the term “religious skepticism” over “atheism.”
Does any of this clarify things for you?
My mother is sort of the same, she has said many times that she can’t bear the thought she she won’t ever see the people she loves again, when she dies. I never question further than that, why would I. She never tries to convert me, and knows I a don’t share her belief.
Apart from argumentative people online and the odd street preacher (which are by and large people that are not interested in an honest discussion), people that initiate and hold an honest discussion on the subject are few and far between here. But I guess that’s what happens in a mostly secular society where taking your religion out in public (outside your congregation or among your fellow religious friends) just seems weird.
Edit: The religious exposure in daily life is so low that it’s quite easy to just assume secularity all over, and forget that there are, in fact, quite a few religious people out there. For example, I’ve made jokes (in a professional setting) about computer algorithms and stacks, saying “…and the first shall be the last” (Matt 20:16), to which a colleague once replied - dead serious - “Yeah, the Bible says so”.
Anyone notice he ran away from that lie pretty quickly? His username should have been Pinocchio not Sherlock.
I have frequently recommended them to Atheists with litigation issues. That’s what they specialize in. If you have a legal issue, someone there can help you.
Humanist International is a good idea but you don’t need to be an atheist to be a humanist. My impression is that there are a lot of bleeding hearts on the site. I don’t fit in well with such a touchy crowd.
I don’t necessarily support Armin Navabi’s agenda but I like his ‘In your face’ Atheism. His mockery of gods and God is always worth a watch.
This site is unique in the fact that it really does hold the Atheists to the same standard as the Theists. If you come on here spouting unsupported bullshit, like most atheist chat sites seem to allow, the brains around this place will twist you around and show you the exit. This means, when you come in here with a bullshit bigoted attitude, you are going to be challenged and your choice is to grow or go find a group that supports your brand of bigotry. I think the people on the site, while being atheists, have a solid understanding of skepticism. (Not to be confused with cynicism.) If you have evidence and can demonstrate a truth claim, or sufficiently support it at least, you are golden on this site.
Ah Sherlock, I forgot what a bare faced liar he was, a troll with a chip on his shoulder from the very first. He was one of the most relentlessly dishonest apologists I’ve ever seen post here.
Note he never revisited that particular lie, though this was typical of his childish and petty trolling, resorting to petty and dishonest ad hominem to provoke a response, then equally dishonestly trying to paint himself the victim.
(and